The Human Behavior Podcast
Do you ever wonder why people act the way that they do? Join human behavior experts Brian Marren and Greg Williams as they discuss all things human behavior related. Their goal is to increase your Advanced Critical Thinking ability through a better understanding of HBPR&A (Human Behavior Pattern Recognition & Analysis.) What is HBPR&A? It's a scientific (and fun) way to understand and articulate human behavior cues so that you can predict likely outcomes and it works regardless of your race, religion, political ideology or culture!
The Human Behavior Podcast
The Parking Lot
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Hello everyone and welcome to the Human Behavior Podcast. In today's episode, we're taking you to a place you visit every single day the parking lot and showing how that simple strip of asphalt can become a live classroom for human behavior pattern recognition and analysis. For the longtime listeners who've heard us talk about parking lots before, this episode is going to be different. Today, we are using the 2023 Covenant School Shooting Report as our case study to break down how one lone car, parked far from the building and occupied for more than an hour, broadcasted danger long before a single shot was fired. Now, this isn't a true crime recap. It's a how-to session how to read baselines and spot the incongruent signals, how to separate intent from after-the-fact motives, and how a moment of informed curiosity can shut down a tragedy before it starts. So grab your notepads, buckle up and think about the last parking lot you pulled into, or maybe the one you're driving past right now. Thank you so much for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed the episode. Don't forget to check out our Patreon channel for additional content and subscriber-only episodes. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider leaving us a review and, more importantly, sharing it with a friend. Thank you for your time and remember, training changes behavior. All right, greg, we're gonna go ahead and jump in.
Speaker 1:This morning We've got a topic that we've kind of discussed before and we talked about a lot in class and uses analogy, and that's the parking lot, and some of you will will kind of know where we're going with this, but you know it's, it's a parking lot, is a great, you know, it's just, it's a great analogy for human behavior in general. There's a lot of specifics, we can get into it, but it's a. It's a great way to understand how humans operate in terms of setting patterns and how to look for incongruent signals and how to find things out of place and how to attribute value and understanding. So the parking lot can be used as a sense-making exercise, can be used to explain human behavior. Right, it's a. It's a what we would call a transition area. You're going to a store, right, you have to park in the parking lot. Anyone is welcome there. There's only certain ways in and out. There's a specific flow that it's designed to use. So there, there's just so many different things that we can talk about within a parking lot, and it's a great one to watch and observe and understand human behavior and to put terms to different things, about why people set certain patterns, and some of them are created by the person who built the parking lot, and then some become created by use over time, of people maybe taking a shortcut, and so it changes the environment and the environment influences people. So it's just a general one we're going to get into, and there's different exercises and things that we talk about people doing, like you know, typical human behavior.
Speaker 1:I want to pull up to the grocery store and I want to park as close to the store as I possibly can. If I could park in the aisle, I would, because I'm that lazy, and then I could just reach out and grab my produce and drive out. Right, and that's why drive-thrus are there. But the idea is that that's a general way to look at it. Now people are going to say, well, I don't park there because this, and I don't say it's like okay, yeah, right, you're right. Someone will say, well, I park farther away because I don't want my door getting dinged up by someone, and I go yeah, because you're demonstrating intent, meaning you made a conscious choice, a deliberate choice, to not park closer for a specific reason.
Speaker 1:Now, in your case, it's that hey, I don't want my car to get dinged up, or I got a nice car, or I've seen it out here where you were like. You'll see, like the person I saw a Ferrari taking up like two parking spots. It parked on an angle and in that case I was kind of like all right, you know, if I had a Ferrari, if I had a $250,000 car, you know, I'd probably take up two parking spaces and if someone had a problem with it I'd just probably throw them a hundred dollar bill or something like that. I don't know, it's when it's like I'm kind of like all right, I would probably do that too, but anyway. So there's things like that. And then there's maybe the owner of the store or establishment said to his employees hey, you park in the back of the lot, the spots up close are for customers. Or you might go in there and say I'm on my lunch break, I want to go sit away from everyone, I want to listen to some music and eat a freaking sandwich.
Speaker 1:But the point is that's incongruent. All of those things are incongruent with what's typical, all right. Now, that's important to understand. Now, I'm not saying that there's something inherently wrong with that or different. It's just, it's different. It's interesting. You may say your doctor may have told you hey, one way to get more steps in and more physical activity is, when you're out doing your daily stuff, go, park away from where you're going. So you, you get a few steps in, okay, but that's all. Goal oriented behavior that means you're, you have a demonstration of your intent to do something, all right. Now I don't know what that thing is, but it's different than everyone else in the parking lot. It's incongruent, all right. So that's, that's a quick explanation. We're going to get into all that.
Speaker 1:But this is the why we're discussing parking lots again, and the why is because I'm going to just read it to you here, and what I'm reading from is called an incident summary, right, an investigative case summary put together by the Metro Nashville Police Department Criminal Investigations Division, their homicide unit, and this was after the Covenant Presbyterian Church and School that was attacked on March of 2023. So this report just came out at the end of March here in 2025. And there's right off the bat. If any of those folks who follow us or have seen this report, you're going to know exactly where I'm going with this, because I'll just read a couple paragraphs from it, but at approximately 8 am on March 27, 2023, aubrey Hale left her residence on Brightwood Drive in Nashville, tennessee.
Speaker 1:When she exited her residence, she was carrying a large duffel bag which contained several firearms, ammunition for those firearms, tactical gear and her stuffed animals. She also had with her a backpack containing two notebooks and assorted items. She loaded those bags into her vehicle, a 2014 Honda Fit hatchback, right Smaller car, and left her residence. She then drove to Royal Range USA in Nashville, arriving there at 8.16 AM. Upon arriving at this location, she drove to a far corner of the parking lot, well away from the building and the entrance to the lot, so away from the building and away from the entrance to the parking lot. Once there, she donned her tactical vest, affixed magazine pouches to her belt. The vest was loaded with several spare magazines, an automatic knife and other equipment. She then assembled and loaded three different firearms. She then remained in her vehicle in the parking lot of the location for over an hour and finally left the location at 9.33 am. She then drove directly to the Covenant Presbyterian Church and School, arriving there at 9.53 am. Upon arriving at the school, she first drove through the parking lot slowly before parking her vehicle in a parking lot on the west side of a building. Upon parking her vehicle, she waited inside her vehicle for several minutes. During this time, hale sent goodbye message to a friend through Instagram Messenger. At approximately 10.09, she exited her vehicle, slung two firearms around her neck and shoulders and approached one of the west entrances to the building, so not the main entrance, the west entrance.
Speaker 1:So the investigation report continues on. You can all read it right, I'll send out the links and if you're on our Patreon, I'll send out the direct links and some other information and photos. In there and there's right in at the beginning of that report is a stunning photo. I posted it on our Instagram the other day and it literally shows the size of the parking lot. There's only one or two other vehicles right in the front. So the perspective is from the building looking out into the parking lot, and it's just this open waters of a parking lot, and then one vehicle parked all the way, as far as you possibly can, in the corner, not near the entrance. So it's a very powerful image.
Speaker 1:So that's the so what, the reason why we're talking about the parking lots today, and I preface the information with a little bit about it. But, greg, I want to go to you to kind of kick this off. I've been talking long enough right here at the beginning, so I'll let you get some words in. But this is extremely powerful, extremely significant. You sent me this report and I didn't have time to go through it, I just opened it up, read just those two paragraphs. I read and stopped and texted you and literally said holy, you know what? Like wow, I didn't know this yet because a lot of these facts, of these cases don't come out for a while. You don't get all the details until an investigation comes out, which is why we typically don't comment on things. But it's so powerful to us. So so let's kind of maybe start there on why this is so powerful, greg.
Speaker 2:So I would. I would, I would say this I would say it's rare that I disagree with Brian and even more rare when I disagree with Brian in public. Generally those conversations not an argument, never an argument start when Brian said you've had enough to drink those type of things. But in this instance you said two times something that I will take umbrage with, and I'll explain why. You said at the very beginning hey, folks, when you listen to us talk about parking lots, you'll know where we're going. And then again when you said hey, anybody that's familiar with this case of Audrey Hale and the Covenant Presbyterian Church School, you'll know where we're going and you know what. I don't think that people sometimes do.
Speaker 2:I think that sometimes it's easy for them to conflate issues, Brian, and the idea is that you, when you're speaking, you're speaking strictly from a human behavior pattern recognition, left and analysis, right way of thinking, and it's so common that you miss the fact that somebody sitting at home might not know why we're deep.
Speaker 1:Right and no, no, no, let me just hit on that real quick. That's an excellent point. And thank you for pointing that out. That's an excellent point. And thank you for pointing that out. I was kind of speaking to you know, the, the, the Cognorati, the folks on our Patreon, the folks who, who we we talked to and we've trained with, and those kinds of people. So not to just a, yeah, a general audience, okay, so, yes, I, I, I guess that's what I meant by it, but, but good point, because it was yeah.
Speaker 2:Totally get it, but let's start more towards tabula rasa. So I want to give everybody that's listening get out your yellow pad. I want to give you two things. I want to give you the FBI. Look at it very, very, very simply. This model is not a profile shooter. Create a checklist of danger signs pointing to the next adolescent who will be in lethal violence to a school. Those things do not exist. Okay, that was the first part of it. And then issues facing the educator is. Predicting an individual who's never acted out violently in the past will do so in the future is even more difficult. And then I could go down a little bit more.
Speaker 1:So real quick, Greg, can you say where that was from?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we'll cite it on the thing. The idea is that the FBI spent years 25 years compiling a report, and the report is the most important document that's out there about school shooters. It's the most comprehensive, it's had the most research, it's defended all of its fight. And then the last couple of comments I'll bring from it. Motivation can never be known with complete certainty, but, to the extent possible, understanding motivation is a key element in evaluating a threat. Then they go on and they say okay, nonviolent people do not snap or decide on the spur of the moment to meet a problem with violence. Instead, the path towards violence is an evolutionary one, with many signposts along the way. And then they said misinformation, here's the common misinformation, and stop using it. School violence is an epidemic, all shooters are alike, school shooters are always loners, and it goes on and on. Okay, so, so why did I bring?
Speaker 1:that up.
Speaker 2:Here's my comparison. I want you to have your yellow pad ready and I want you to write these next couple of things down Rape, homicide, robberies, kidnappings, theft, general theft and then auto theft. And then we could add carjacking and numerous other violent acts that are going on. Everyone that I just said occurs in a parking lot. We know they occur in a parking lot and there's a higher incidence of those situations in a parking lot than anywhere else. Okay, so if I knew that?
Speaker 2:And then I just had the FBI report queued up next to me and I look at that, which baseline do you think I'll have a better, more robust comparison against the one for the parking lot and turmoil, turbidity, incongruent signals, reasonable suspicion or the gosh damn report from the smartest guys in the FBI? So if the FBI is telling you, hey, there's not a lot there and you can't really dig into it, what they're trying to tell you is, the closer to bang you are, the more you're going to be able to see, because even their four-point standard of threat assessment is wrong sometimes. But you know what's not wrong? When you see somebody that has two bags that are so heavy that they have to walk backwards and they're wearing a vest. That's probably not the UPS guy.
Speaker 2:So what Brian and I do and what HPPRNA does is it says what are the simple things that I can see that show me demonstrations of intent. And once I see a demonstration of intent, I'm probably already past the hey, that's interesting. Phase and on to the assessing anomalous behavior phase, meaning that I'm pre-attack. Okay, pre-incident leads to pre-attack. What happens is most people are going well, those are pre-attack behaviors. You fucking don't know, so don't use that terminology.
Speaker 2:But I can tell you this interest has to come before reasonable suspicion, has to come before probable cause. So what did Brian just read us? Brian read us early morning hours, and I don't mean dawn, I mean early morning hours, where people would normally pull into a parking lot and do what type of behavior? I'm going to eat breakfast. I'm going to change from my work clothes to my school clothes. I'm going to to to pick up other people because we have a carpool. Brian, we could go down a litany of reasonable things that a person's going to do yeah and likely yeah.
Speaker 2:We had none of that. Likelihood was high on those. We didn't have that. Now we had stuff that was more analogous to perhaps a medical emergency, okay, or somebody fighting for their life that's being raped inside of a car. The car's parked off, it's still running, it's a hatchback. Why is that important?
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:They're making all kinds of important things in this study that aren't. Why is it important that the hatchback? Hatchback is like a fishbowl a lot of windows all around. It wasn't a van. It wasn't a van with curtains.
Speaker 2:It wasn't the back of a step van, okay, where nobody could see it, and the idea that why does somebody choose a further route? You touched on this, but the geographics of a parking lot always are tied to some sort of logic. I'm parking here because, an hour before I get off, the shade from that tree will make my car cooler. I'm parking here, like you said, because my boss said hey, don't park by the entrance, that's for customers, for paying people. All it would have taken is one person that was curious, one person that was interested in going. Hey, I wonder what's happening over there. If you're not a cop and you're a citizen or you're an owner of a local company, just driving by, just using a pair of binos, would have stopped this event in its tracks. Brian, she already sent her messages. She already kissed everybody goodbye. She was going to carry on, no matter what got in its tracks. Brian, she already sent her messages. She already kissed everybody goodbye. She was going to carry on, no matter what got in her way.
Speaker 2:And where does the public think? Great article, great story, great research done and a lot of study by Nashville. You got to give them a lot of credit, brian. It's a great study, but where do you think they got the photos and the videos that are in that study? Okay, so if you can film it, you could stop it.
Speaker 2:And I'll say one last thing, and then we'll go in a more itemized list so we can follow logic, folks, I know you're all over your yellow pad and putting exclamation points, but that's how I think, brian, when we look, who could say to us well, you're not taken into consideration, blank, don't give a shit To us. Well, you're not taking into consideration, blank, don't give a shit. Because if it happens, it's going to start in the parking lot before it gets to your front door. It's going to happen somewhere. And what you've created now and you use the term that we use all the time, a transition area Look, you have to come out of the woods and go across the grass to get to the building and you know what's mostly in your way parking lot.
Speaker 2:So so if we think of the lowest common denominator common denominator, and we think of the least intervention by you, a public person, a citizen, or a copper or HR or whatever you do, the parking lot's the place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and so this is why why we start there right, so we could I mean we, we could. We could set up chairs and a whiteboard and a classroom in a parking lot and and never leave that parking lot and be there every day for a month teaching about human behavior, and never every day for the rest of our lives.
Speaker 1:You, you'd well, you, you don't have to. Everything is right there and that's why I use this as an analogy. It's tough to you know, we're not going to be able to touch on everything in a podcast episode, but it's a great way to look at the world, because in the world, just like in a parking lot, there are rules, right, there's norms, there's social norms, there's directions, there's social norms, there's directions, there's engineering. Behind it, there's a purpose, there's an intent behind what the parking lot's there for, why it was designed a certain way, and then humans then have to interact with it. So humans interact with it and they generally follow certain patterns. So if the parking lot is constructed in a optimal way, right, they're going to go in and out the right way, they're going to use the right direction.
Speaker 1:But maybe sometimes the design is flawed or a traffic light comes in later and it changes the flow of something, and then you'll see, like, maybe people don't know where to go, or there's an odd stop sign right when you pull in and it messes it up, and you can see that you're like how this feels weird or what.
Speaker 1:Why is everything getting backed up here? Because, because the design isn't optimal, right and then. So what'll happen is then people might go well, f this, I'm not going all the way through the middle here, I'm going to go around the outside where I know it's easier to go, and then that creates a pattern. Then, once other people see it and they go, oh okay, I see it. So now there's sort of like becomes this, this new natural or organic order to to this chaos in a parking lot versus how it was designed? You'll, you'll see stuff like that at at like maybe large events, sporting events, county fair or something where they kind of came in and had to do like the ad hoc parking lot, where it's a dirt lot, and then things start getting messed up and then people start parking each other in Cause it's not really defined Humans are just going to drop the people directing the traffic at those events go.
Speaker 2:Why aren't you seeing it the way I'm seeing it?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:In your head. They'd rehearse and have a plan and everything else. But you're coming in and everything looks exactly the same and now you're going left instead of right. Let me give you before you go on, because you're onto something here. Let me give you a local one. So you love Starbucks and we go to Starbucks before class often.
Speaker 1:I get that green tea, that ice green tea, it's so good.
Speaker 2:Shelly hates Starbucks because of the politics and Shelly's angry all the time and she won't go. So now Gunnison has two Gunnison has a Starbucks in the city market and Gunnison has a Starbucks in town, which is ridiculous, a horrible standard for such a small place. And we go to Stephanie's place on the outskirt of town because it's a local small place. And we go to Stephanie's place on the outskirt of town because it's a local. But the other day, on a whim, I wanted my pistachio. So I go, I'm going to get that cold brew with a pistachio hint. It was amazing drink. I'm giving them a shout out now. And they didn't have it. But when I went in the parking lot with my normal size Toyota pickup truck, I hit every curb, couldn't make the turn up to the sign, almost took the sign off this place is brand new.
Speaker 2:It's a brand new Starbucks that recently opened and you know what they built it for. They built it for a place back East East of the Mississippi that's got small cars and electric cars and all that other stuff Even the place where you wait to have them bring it out to you or run in to grab your order, brian, they were made for mid to small size cars so nobody can navigate it. And then they put these huge curbs that are in it to guide you and everybody that I saw. We actually sat there for a minute and took a couple of photos because everybody with a pickup truck had a edge and back up and come in and out.
Speaker 1:So what.
Speaker 2:So the familiarity with geographics means a ton when you're a curious observer, because that alone can draw your interest to somebody going through. Do they know? Do they not know? Are they parked there for too long?
Speaker 1:Have they been here before, have they not?
Speaker 2:Right. So what you're saying to me resonates deeply, because even you common citizen not Cognarati that's watching something can determine oh, that guy's just using that parking lot to beat the light. That person is using that parking lot because they're lost and they're just doing a flip. That person's using that parking lot because it's off the beaten path and they're going to make out or they're going to drink. You get what I'm saying. Those are the things that we'll never know unless we what? Unless we investigate, unless we drive over and take a look or walk over and take a peek.
Speaker 1:And what you just described. These are sense-making exercises that you can do that get you better at understanding human behavior and how people make decisions and understanding their intent, and those are all pre-event indicators. That's what allows you to see these things and I had mentioned it when I posted this on social media. It was like it would have taken one person to drive driving through that parking lot to go hmm, that's odd.
Speaker 1:Let me just go down that row real quick and drive past and see audrey hale sitting there with full kit on and three guns, and you know, and you're going, that's one or or or sitting there eating a sandwich, you know, having a cigarette on on their on their lunch break. You know what I'm saying and so, and to go, okay, it's, it's, it's. It's that effing simple to prevent a school shooting and and, like I, I don't think people understand that as a whole, and then that's what I think you meant too. I think that's what you, you, you're you're alluding to as well when I said okay, you'll see where I'm going with this. It's like, exactly, people really, really don't they and I get the comments on there too, which is why I love we can talk about that is you know, you get some comments on social media and be like, oh well, it could just be this.
Speaker 1:It could, and it's like you're right, it could be a person who is in that part there, but this wasn't, and you don't know that until you go that. So so you attribute value, you have this observation, go oh, it's just this. Oh, it's just that. Oh, it's just this.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no. Add to that. Add to that. Complacency is a danger, right, but we don't name what complacency is. Complacency is saying that I'm homeostasis, everything's fine, nothing's going to change. So that's the third or fourth time that you go and check and it's just somebody doing a dumpster drop off, or it's a person waiting for their kid that takes a different way back from school and they're going to pick them up, or it's a person that thinks her wife is cheating on them so they're sitting there to get a better view of the motel. Six across, okay.
Speaker 2:So the third or fourth time that you've checked an incongruent signal and it comes up to be nothing, you get dumber. So what's the fourth time? The fourth time is ah, it's probably one of those first three. That's complacency. So it's incumbent upon you and this is for everybody listening to us that you have to be the harbinger of the message. You have to go over and take a look and, if you don't feel comfortable, call the police. A good copper would rather come a hundred times for nothing than one time for what happened at the Covenant Presbyterian Church and School, and anybody will back that up. That's a good copper, brian. And you're right. You don't know, you don't know. So the experiment is on the table.
Speaker 1:You have to go take a look, and it's a public place and because anyone is allowed to go to any parking lot anywhere, right, I can no longer Starbucks change their policy, so I can't go in and use the bathroom and sit in there for half a day without buying anything anymore. That's the they, they, they, they change that all day.
Speaker 1:But the idea but but yeah, that's where I'm calling from. I'm, I'm actually in a, in in my my car that I live in in in a in a Starbucks parking lot right now. It's just a fake backdrop, but but no, but. So there's like a certain degree of of anonymity in a parking lot, especially when it's a. You know, you go to the mom and pop restaurant off the beaten path and the only people going to that parking lot either are going to eat there or going to work there, right. But in something like this, in this large parking lot where you've got several stores and maybe a bit one of the big box stores like a home Depot or or a target or something like that, well, there's a, there's that degree of anonymity in there. So now I'm in there, I I'm likely to do things because I'm like, well, I'm, I'm hidden in plain sight here. No one can see me, I'm doing whatever it is. So, whether that's a meetup for a dope deal, whether that's, you know, or a god, I've seen some horrible ones where it's a child custody change, where they meet in a parking lot to change the kids and then that, you know, erupts into a domestic violence situation. But you know that that's where these things happen, and they're places you go to every single day with your family or kids sometimes, and you're you're checked the every single day with your family or kids sometimes, and you're you're checked the f out. You're focused on what you're doing and literally the school shooter is prepping for an attack right down the aisle from you, and it's not meant to scare you to talk about this. It means it's all out there, so, so, like you said, the parking lot, before I can go in and do anything, I have to drive there, I have to, and I have to get out of my vehicle and then carry out this attack. So all that time I have beforehand, all of those things are just screaming out to people and those are the signals to pay attention to.
Speaker 1:And then you could even get into from this one the specifics of well, you know someone's going to go. Well, why did she choose that parking lot? What was it significant? It's like, okay, well, you know someone's going to go. Well, why did she choose that parking lot? What was it significant? It's like, okay, well, maybe she'd been there before, right, maybe she knows that place, maybe she thought, oh, it's a shooting range, so maybe I'm less likely to stick out here if I have a bunch of guns. So so there's thought put into all of those things and and that demonstrates her intent obviously for this tack, but it's it's so. It's so unbelievably powerful that, like, I mean, obviously this is why we're talking about it. But you don't typically sit in your car for an hour in a parking lot Like that, that doesn't happen.
Speaker 2:That's not typical behavior.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I mean. Well, without a reason outside of the purpose of being in that parking lot, the purpose of you going to a place and putting in the parking lot is to go shop at that establishment and then leave and go home and carry on with what you do Like you don't linger People don't fucking linger around and do nothing.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about that for just a minute. So there's a law on parking lots and so if it's a private parking lot which most parking lots are they're private to that business. So, for example, Walmart the parking lot is owned by Walmart. It's not owned by the city, it's owned by Walmart, and so Walmart has certain things that they can do. Like Walmart allows you to change your oil in their parking lot, they allow you to camp in their parking lot.
Speaker 1:They allow you to camp there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what I'm saying and so that's theirs. And, for example, if you run a stop sign in the Walmart parking lot, they have them all over the place, you know to ease you getting in and out of the place.
Speaker 2:A copper can't stop you for that. As a matter of fact, copper can only stop you in a parking lot like that if you've committed a felony in their presence or, for example, something as goofy compared to that felony in progress as handicap. They can enforce a handicap. So those are important standards. So somebody, even though it's a public parking lot, owns it and has to maintain it, and that's the person you sue if you slip and fall. Let me give you an example. In Colorado, I'm interim chief of police of a ski resort town okay, waiting for the ranch to open, all those other things. So I have to go to town council meetings and they're horrible. And I'm at a town council meeting. The argument is that it's a million dollars of parking spot at this city, a million dollars of parking spot. So when they call the cops to ticket somebody or tow somebody, they mean it.
Speaker 2:Because that business only got two parking spots, okay, and it cost them $2 million to open in that strip mall, brian, so you understand that people do pay attention to it. You remember a couple of years ago, folks, where Brian and I were talking about how it didn't look like, it looked like an inside job to us the robbery of the armored car and how the armored car pulled in in front of the armored car and how the armored car pulled in in front of the place because it's the most convenient spot and they start opening doors. But there's a car in the snow backed in, running with all the windows cracked a bit and guys inside chain smoking. For the love of God. Okay, all we're saying is you, when I said earlier, pre-attack behavior? Pre-attack behavior is me sitting in a car loading a gun. Okay, that's pre-attack.
Speaker 2:That's probably the last thing you're going to see, pre-event behavior is actually what Brian's talking about, and it's a much lower standard and easier to achieve. Why has that guy been sitting there idling in that car for that long? And here you have Audrey Hale that is down and in. She's on a mission. She's got a plan in her head so she's not attending to those things that are immediately around her, and that's your bonus. The bonus is that while this person is putting on a vest and doing all these other things, even a casual observer is going to say that's interesting. And once you say that's interesting, you can foil everything that comes after that. You can be the pair of scissors that cuts that plan off right there the fuse. Remember the old round bomb Wile E Coyote?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and there's the fuse, and how many times did you see him stop it by just cutting it? You know, and that could be you, and this is a perfect case. You don't have to delve, brian. How many pages did you honestly go through before you saw, before the light hit you, that, oh my gosh, it was all here. It was probably the first page I would say it was the first paragraph.
Speaker 2:Okay, there you go. If that's so true, then why did we see all day yesterday everybody going t-shirt and stained glass window and why do we always see? What's the reliance on that?
Speaker 1:well, you. So so what? What happens? Is we, we, we in general? Right, it's just a general statement.
Speaker 1:No, humans do not understand these situations. Because if you're sitting there reading through this, like you're, you're, you're not, you've never thought about, and if you're listening to the podcast, hopefully, hopefully, you know you never thought about I'm going to go shoot up at school, I'm going to go kill a bunch of people, I want to go do this, or I'm angry about that, like so, because you've never had that experience, you don't know what that's like, we're naturally aren't going to understand it. So then we try to. We try to sort of make ourselves feel better. I think a lot of this is is literally just driven by the fact that, because we don't understand, and that's scary, and I don't want to think about this, or I don't want to think that anyone could do this, or it's got to be a monster, so we create a monster and then we look at all these things and say, oh well, it's because of this, or oh, they did it because they were bullied, or they're this incel, or they had this issue or that, and that's what we need to focus on. It's like no, look man, like a lot of people have those issues, you know a lot of people have, you know, have a hard time getting laid. A lot of people have the like the. They don't go kill a bunch of people for it. You know what I mean. So, so, so we, we, we try to look at things like okay, well, you know, she had her teddy bears with her stuffed animals. I don't know what, what exactly it was, so he had stuffed animals or wore a certain shirt or this. It's like, yes, that was important to them, but that's, that's not. That it doesn't have to do. Understanding why they chose a specific stuffed animal isn't going to help you understand or see or prevent the next attack. Those things don't matter because they're so, they're so personal to that person and you may not know. You.
Speaker 1:I see so many people making shit up after the fact and I'm like did you interview this person? Were you part of the investigation? Did you talk to them? Did they tell you why that was? You know? Because it's like the, the, what was his name? Berowitz?
Speaker 1:Like oh, the, the neighbor's dog told me to do that and which he fucking made up and said later on that he made up but it caught on and everyone went, oh, he's crazy, he's this, this fucking bullshit, right, and it doesn't. It doesn't like it and it doesn't help me understand the situation. In fact, it makes it worse. It makes it harder to see what, what the next is going to be, because now I'm looking for people that you know are listening to dogs, or I'm looking for people that are carrying around their stuffed animals and it's like dude, like that may mean absolutely nothing, and that person themselves they don't. They don't even fully understand why they're doing that.
Speaker 1:Most of these people don't. If you're, if you're thinking about and planning and going to kill a bunch of kids, you're so far off that you, anything that you do, it's. It's nonsense at that point, right it, it only means something to you and it's a totally subjective. I mean this is why we don't get into the motive a lot with these different things, because it doesn't fucking matter. And there's going to be a new motive next month and there's going to be another one after that and then in a few years, they're going to be calling this figure it out, and so so all of that research and study into this, or papers or books people write about is fucking bullshit because it doesn't stand the test of time and it doesn't help me in any manner.
Speaker 1:And so, but understanding how people behave, the decisions that they make and the actions that they take are are the most important part, because that tells you what the most important part, because that tells you what they're likely going to do. That tells you about intent and understanding. Ok, this person is sitting here because they're on a break from work. They've been fucking stressed and they don't want to be near anyone and they want to sit by themselves, they want to eat a sandwich and they want to listen to a podcast or listen to their music or whatever. Ok, that's typical behavior. Ok, but but that's very, very different than everything you just described, that she was doing in her vehicle at the time, and so those things, too, look differently. They feel differently. Right? You don't have to be some trained expert to look at that and go okay, I see what's happening. You just have to drive by and go. Hmm, that seems odd. I may not know exactly why this seems odd, but but here now, what we're discussing is why you're thinking that this is why that's an incongruent signal. Okay, so, so. So that's all you need to be at.
Speaker 1:Once you can recognize those, it doesn't matter what the point is or where the attack was going to happen, or or who the target was or what the motive is behind it, because you're never going to know that shit, because that person doesn't even fucking know that shit very well. They're so confused and they have so much emotional and cognitive turbidity that they're going through that they're just grasping at things to to validate their feelings and to to allow them to continue on and carry out this attack right. So you have to justify it to yourself. They still have to like they know it's wrong what they're doing, but they've gotten past that by. For all of these other reasons whether it was a chemical imbalance, I was on pills, someone treated me wrong, someone did this, I'm going to put all that and then I'm going to write it down in a manifesto and then I'm gonna say, yeah, and this guy had it right a hundred years ago and you know the and it's.
Speaker 1:And so we, we all find that shit interesting, but it's, it's basically fucking nonsense. It's basically someone who is, is, cannot navigate the world in a typical manner and it has such a difficult time doing this. And you know what? Is it their fault? No, they're not going to take responsibility for their actions. It's everyone else's fault. So I'm going to go after them like I'm not going to go after myself, I'm not going to say I'm the fucking problem. Everyone else is. But and this is what it I get, and you do too, but it's like I get. So it just drives me fucking nuts when I see all this stuff because it's people making stuff up and it's entertaining, yeah, but because it makes yeah
Speaker 1:well, it makes for a good movie, it makes for a good book, it makes for a good story. But so the fuck does bigfoot so, does, so, does so, does the chupacabra so does so? Does aliens like it's just like, well, thanks. But I'm not only do I not know anything, I'm a little bit dumber after experiencing this and listening to that, like you know my well, well, my thing, and I always, I always bash. You know, everyone loves talking about like, like ted kaczynski, and like, yes, the guy was a mathematical fucking genius. Okay, and unless you're also a mathematical fucking genius, you're probably not going to understand the guy.
Speaker 1:And he was all over the place with what he wrote and said. But look at what he did. He took these steps, he rode his bike into town. Like I keep using these because it's like, don't go off of what people say. People fucking say anything, people say shit all the damn time. I think I've sworn more on this podcast than I have on any other because it's like it was so powerful when you just look at someone's behavior and what they're doing compared to a contextual baseline. And literally, greg, like you, just, but your simple description of going to the starbucks near you, in in your, in your toyota truck and navigating that. Okay, everyone has had that experience, everyone listening has had that experience, whether, whether it was at starbucks or whether it was wherever. But but you go, oh well, it seems odd, or this doesn't fit, or this like so. So the, the, those are things that you can do every single day to go, hmm, ooh, a piece of candy, or hmm, that looks weird, or that's interesting, or hey.
Speaker 2:So let's let the F-bomb parade drop. Sorry no no, you shouldn't be sorry because Brian's has worked up, as I am, but I've had 24 hours to digest it and calm down, because that's exactly the type of tirade when I was on the phone with Brian. Can you believe this shit?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're doing the Gilbert Godfrey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, exactly, god darn it. So let's do a rectangular horizontal, the yellow pad reasonability study. Okay, grab your pens, folks, if you drive, and pull over for a minute, or be the pastor, okay. So what I want you to do is I want you to take a look on the left-hand side and just put three or four of the actions that we saw Audrey Hale doing. Then, on the right-hand side, I want you to put things that happen every day.
Speaker 2:People get bad news. Every day, people get fired from jobs. Every day, people get over-emotional because somebody notified them that a recent meet or an old friend or a family member has died. A person just figured out that their truck is malfunctioning and they've already called the auto club and this was the closest parking lot. So here you've got all the reasonable answers on one side of it. You got Audrey Hale's demonstrations of intent on the other side. So what would the demonstrations of intent be like if you recently got fired from your job? So now we're on the right-hand side. Well, if you recently got fired from your job and you're slipping on a vest and you're loading a gun, houston, we have a problem Now.
Speaker 2:So in your reasonability box I want you to put. Is it reasonable to assume that everybody that's ever gotten fired from a job has done that? No, as a matter of fact, it's so rare that there's TV movies or books that are written about them and that makes number one news. Okay, I'll buy that. Well, what about incel? Brian and I are celibate and not together. We're not on the road, but so being incels, come on.
Speaker 2:they're still listening Together. We're not on the road, but so, being incels, come on they're still listening.
Speaker 2:But being incels all right, I want you to think about that. A lot of us didn't get laid in high school a lot of us, okay and what we did is we did an Isla Vista and we went out and we amassed guns and we killed our roommate and rammed people and shot them until we shot ourselves. Well, no, as a matter of fact, that's so gosh, damn rare that I can only think of two instances in my lifetime where I can directly relate the incel to the crime. Okay, so what happens, brian, is we're getting Audrey and her activities and her demonstration of intent are standing alone, and all these other ones are going nowhere. They're all going nowhere. It's the family waiting for that kid to get off school going nowhere. It's the family waiting for that kid to get off school. It's the person that got fired that's just trying to take an emotional break before they get home to tell their significant other. It's all those things, and they can be packed with information and turbidity and emotion, but they don't lead to somebody. The next place they're going, they're going to get out of their vehicle with a bunch of guns and kill people. So the idea is that every story is in play all the time. And so that person that's parked up on the curb just in front of the ATM isn't going to rob the store and take the ATM. They're waiting for a wheelchair person in the city market. But you don't know unless you check. You do sustained observation, you take a look, you call the store, you call the cops, you say this is interesting. You know why? Because there's not 70 cars parked out on the curb in front of the ATM. Most people follow rules. Most people got into the situation at that Starbucks that I was in because they thought well, no problem, there's the drive-in window right over there. And then, after doing the Jenga to try to get the truck in, they go. I'm never coming back and you might never know. You might work at that Starbucks and go.
Speaker 2:Why is it that this plan didn't work in Gunnison? And somebody's going to say well, it's because Westerners don't drink caffeinated beverage. No, you see how we conflate things. So that's the people. When you put stuff on social media and people snipe you, it's that person. It's the classic obstructionist that looks and goes. Well, there's probably myriad reasons. Well, there's myriad reasons. You know what. You know what. There's myriad reasons, but not when it comes down to your choice to go kill people, because then there's only a few choices, and those choices are I've got to do it with a bomb, a gun or a knife. I got to go to them or bring them to me. Do you see what I'm trying to say?
Speaker 2:The calculus gets a lot easier when that person is out there with bad intent on their mind, and so what's the common fabric that we can get to the parking lot? I may never stop them on the road, brian. Their driving may be perfect, I may never get the inclination that there's something wrong with that car, but in the parking lot, the preparatory behavior that I'm seeing is incongruent, and incongruence alone should be an interest motivator, and it should be the very thing at the big end of the funnel that gets me excited.
Speaker 1:Well, and this case gets gets even more ridiculous in terms of the discussions about it because of all these fucking social issues that that I don't care about and that people shouldn't and aren't going to fucking matter anymore. No-transcript.
Speaker 1:This, this wasn't written by this is exactly, yeah, but but I I I obviously, of course, attributed this. Hey, this is where this came from, and so people know the facts of the case. Like this is this has gone through an investigation of what they found. Well, but here's the thing it said. It should be noted that in life, the offender, audrey hale, gender identified as a male and used he him as preferred pronouns. Under tennessee law, a person's gender identity must correspond with their biological sex or with information present on their certificate of life birth. As hale was a biological female at the time of her death and throughout the incidents described in the summary and in the case file, hale will be referred to as a female, and so it's like that's a clinical approach of how you do these things. But but the mere fact that that had to be in there to me is like what, the what? Those things don't fucking matter. Now I could say it's interesting to me because typically you don't see this happening with females. Like females do this less than males. Like females carry out these attacks at a much lower rate than males do. So that's interesting, but but whether you know it was a guy or a girl who did it, all of these steps would have been the same. So so it's like you're sitting here looking at something that, well, ok, let's say it was a guy or a girl or this, well, what? That doesn't change anything else that happened.
Speaker 1:So why is that relevant information? Even what does that matter? Because, again, everyone wants to point the finger at something and say, oh well, this mental health issue and it was caused by this, and society is letting people do that and we're going to see more. It's like you can't fight, you don't fucking know that this is the topic of du jour over the last couple years, and you know what? In 10 years it's going to be something else. So you're, what are you going to do? You're going to put all this time and effort in something that's going to be a new problem a few years from now.
Speaker 1:Like those things are, are so irrelevant to to prevention, to understanding, to sense making, to the recognition of how these things work, and so to me, it's just like you're, you're, you're, you're using this as some platform for some other purpose, all right. And then now it gets clouded, now it gets buried down into some whatever political issue or social issue other than what it should be as a criminal, fucking act that could have been prevented like that. That's the whole point. This is a horrific criminal act that could have prevented. But we want to look at the, the, the car and the, the type of weapon and and and what that person's political leanings were, and it's like dude what the it's so.
Speaker 2:Let's do an example of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sorry.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. So weaponizing information is always wrong, because if I go to the staunch Republican, they're going to say this is the kind of mixed up kid that happens when they don't know their gender identity. When we go to the Democrats, they killed because you picked on her because of her gender identity. Neither of those matter to being able to see and predict likelihood based on demonstrations of intent, so let me give you one that almost never matters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that was. That was a much better way of putting into it. No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:And, trust me, I understand, because we both have emotional attachments to these types of events and we're so immersed in them that it's hard to come up for air sometime because it seems like that we're getting jabbed all the time and then all of a sudden you get a punch like this and it's just. The memory of this event is just like it happened yesterday, and Brian and I compared this to other events in class, not to highlight this event, but to demonstrate that intent is much more important than motive. So there's a person that was in the news very recently and they're saying take a look at the shirt this person's wearing. Do you know the origin of that shirt? Well, sometimes people do know the origin of the shirt they're wearing and sometimes it's really important to the message that they're trying to deliver. But sometimes a shirt's an effing shirt.
Speaker 2:Do your research? Take a look at the psychology and sociology of messaging. So, for example, saw Brian get torqued out of his mind because a kid was wearing a Che Guevara shirt. And so Brian stops and goes. You understand what that shirt means? Do you even know who that is? And the person's like no, it's just a shirt. Brian goes well, let me educate you on something and Brian goes down the rabbit hole and tells the person who Che was, what kind of person they were and everything else. And do you understand that just by wearing that shirt you're kind of promoting that type of behavior? And the person was like in a collegiate setting and saying, wow, I never, I never knew that. The most important part of that conversation, all of it was important, but the most important part was the person had no idea. The other thing is sometimes people wear things to be provocative or evocative. I never wear message clothing.
Speaker 1:I have right.
Speaker 2:It's a choice that I make, because I and it's nothing with the gray man horse crap it's that I don't want to give somebody piece to latch onto to give them an angle or an opportunity. Yet I use your wearing under armor or things like that, like tattoos. I can use your tattoos to start a conversation, but I'm not going to look at your infidel tattoo and decide that you hate Muslims. You see.
Speaker 2:So, a guy wearing a provocative shirt. That comes back to here I'm going to be provocative to killing Jews or to mass murder or to pull pot or to abortion or any of those other things. Maybe they're just trying to get your goat. So if I spend too much time on that speed bump, on that point of turbulence, I'm going to miss all the other things, because the shirt itself doesn't always mean it's a demonstration of intent.
Speaker 2:The shirt itself doesn't always mean it's a demonstration of intent. As a matter of fact, it's so rare that I remember only a couple of times where it would have been a good warning. Okay, and and so when, when somebody makes a list and then they write that thing on their shirt with a marker and it's not a mass produced shirt that is sold to a lot of people and they decide to walk in, okay, maybe that's a pre-event indication, brian, but most times it's not so saying something like that person shot at that or that person defaced this, before they go on like, like you know, this thing with tesla and and with the with the cars and I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's a perfect example.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but but the example is that most of the people that are doing that are just angry and and they need to lash out at something, and that happens to be the du jour, that happens to be the soup of the day, brian, and and so, if you really got down into it, do they really understand the inner workings of this man's mind?
Speaker 1:no, and that, that's that that's well, it doesn't, it doesn't. That's. That's a perfect example. Because it was, you know, a few years ago. It was like oh, you drive a Tesla, you're, you know, think you're some liberals saving the earth, you know, blah, blah, blah this thing. And then now it's like oh, you drive a Tesla, you're a Nazi, and you're like what? Like so, so, so both.
Speaker 1:But to me, I'm like those people that think that way. They're the same people, they're assholes, they're morons, they're like we need to stop. We need to stop giving them their time, their moment, and we need to stop amplifying those messages, because it's just stupid, it's, it's, it's, I mean, it's like the dumbest way to look at something. But to that point, we all do that to some degree. We attribute value to something in a God, in just such an arbitrary way, without knowing it. And tattoos are a great one, right? We've had people say, oh well, that tattoo means this, it could mean that it's like well, did you ask that person who got the tattoo? Because they might have just thought it looked cool, they might have just thought it was this. And so it's very, very hard to determine on one thing, and we get focused in on those things because they're interesting or they're novel and it's like no, just stick with the actual things that the person did and you can go back through a timeline and say, oh, wow, I see where they were, where they were, where they were going with this and and I mean it. Just well, that's the thing is?
Speaker 1:It reminded me one time I I don't know why it spurred this memory but my buddy, the gym he had I used to work out at you know, I look out the front window sometime this guy was like across the street but there was a. There was a little like a boys and girls club there, so they drop kids off, you know, after school or or during the summer, like they have little summer camps and stuff. So it was like one. A lot of parents driving in and out of there, which was complete chaos and they're the worst drivers in the face of the earth. Then then there was also, you know, it's just like there's activity going on out there and there's like a, you know, an atmosphere to it. Especially during the summer, the kids are outside in the little fenced in area playing and stuff like that. You can hear it.
Speaker 1:And then you know, I just see this, this, this guy and he's like he he, you know, opens up the back of his suv and all I look, while I'm in the middle of doing something. He looks left, looks right, checks his six, and I'm like whoa, what the f? And this is that like the boys and girls club is right there. So rather than going out the front door, I go out the side entrance to take a look, and what it was is there was like a drop-off point there and he was trying to like like a drop-off for extra, like you know whether it's clothes or like even furniture stuff, and and then they'll take it and you know they'll resell it and stuff like that for for money, and you're just don't, you're just donating it. Well, he was had this heavy ass like dresser in the back of his vehicle and like he was looking around to see if there was someone to like give him a hand or something like that you don't need. Because it was the same exact thing, because he was looking around. And so I'm like, oh shit, here we go and I look and I'm like, oh, hey, of course, naturally I'm still investigating. I'm like, hey, do you need a hand with something? He's like yeah, bro, can you help me get this thing out of the vehicle. I don't want to break with what he was wearing or the type of car that he had, or, or you know his tattoos or his. You know the, the tank top he had on. You know it was just what his behavior within that defined context was, and so it's.
Speaker 1:It's like I, I don't know how to, how to. It's hard sometimes, I think, for us. And and when you get this initial like to see something or to explain it, where people either go, yeah, but it could be whatever, or they go oh, yeah, yeah, I, I totally get it. Yeah, no, that makes sense. It's like, yeah, but you're not doing it. It's like no, no, I get it. When I see that stuff, it's like no, no, no, it's seeing it every single day. It's at the starbucks when it's nothing is happening, it's at your local place when there is nothing wrong to still be able to determine the incongruent signals and what's typical and what's normal, because if I start with that, it's going to be much easier and and going down this other rabbit hole just of ideology, and what that means is just it's all well, it's conjecture.
Speaker 2:It's great when you're writing a report and you tie those things back and say these were how I made the identification of the person. These were things that I saw that were unique to this person, so I knew it was the same person I was following. Like for surveillance and those other things, because they could be descriptors, they could be identifying factors, but the idea is behavior is much more important. So so we know from just watching the caper that Audrey never intended to make it out of that building. We also know that she was familiar with this school. She was familiar and she chose it why?
Speaker 2:well, geographic familiarity means something to me, so I don't go. Wow, that door is locked, wow, they. Wow, they're closed today. Wow, you know, I chose a bar to rob and it's the pancake breakfast for the police league, right? So so there's a certain amount of things that we can take a look at and determine likelihood, and so one of the things is that there's a great set of photos of her on the second floor, I believe, shooting down at the police officers and shooting it down at the police car. Why? Because she was at the end of her plan he doesn't have additional information in the plan and she goes well, the cops are here and this was going to be my way out anyway. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to shoot some cops and I'm going to shoot at some cops and I'm going to keep the firefight up for a while. Why? Because my plan didn't have a chapter next. So, because I don't have a chapter next. Well, this is a good place as any, and they're here, and I'm here.
Speaker 2:If she would think back to Klebold and Harris, klebold and Harris effectively chased out everybody that could have been a next victim. Okay, so then they were like well, we're at the end of our plan and we are going to take hostages and demand a helicopter and a bus. But you know, we're at the end of our plan and we are going to take hostages and demand a helicopter and a bus, but we're at the end. So we killed each other. So what I'm saying is, brian, sometimes we have to look at what led up to it. For example, if she would have left the car running in front of the business, for example, she shot through the security of the front doors. We saw the videotape on that. Anybody watching would have seen that. So that means that she had a plan for those doors. But you know what? She didn't have a plan for All those big guns hanging out of the bag. Did you see her try to get through that front door? She got caught and then she backed up and then she had to duck down.
Speaker 2:So certain things like that show us that this is a novice. This isn't her second or third school shooting. This person is learning and adapting as they're going, and so those things seeing those intent-based human behavior observations help me determine what kind of shit I'm in for. The firefight, for the coming arrest. Is the person going to drop the gun when the cops come and show them. We can predict those. The FBI story says we can't predict any of this stuff and reality and science show that we can't predict any of this stuff. But we can determine likelihood based on demonstrations of intent. And what's the best place to do that? A gosh damn parking lot, because parking lots are ubiquitous and we're in them all the time which means we have a lot more comparative information on what's clinically normal and what's not.
Speaker 1:That's it I mean think of that so that's the part of it about you know is since all of our, every perception, every observation you have is a comparison to something. It's a comparison to a known. That's why, when people go, hey, that looks weird or different, or I don't get that, it's because you're looking at something and, whether you recognize or not, there's something about the situation, the person, what's happening, that doesn't fit, that you haven't seen before. Now again, that doesn't mean they're planning an attack on something, it just means it's a comparison or it's dangerous.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 1:But the point is, that's why we use the parking lot, because it's like you go through how many parking lots a day? Everywhere you go, you have to go into a parking lot. It's the absolute perfect place to you know, update and inform your baseline the context of what's normal, what's typical, what do I see you know doing that, lap around, even put one of those out. You remember when we were it's on our instagram folks, it actually kind of got. I think it got like a couple million views or something. But the, the one where we were in, we were in, we were just outside, we were in ann arbor and you know, we did a drive around the parking lot because we saw just this a vehicle parked as far away from the building as you could not near any of the other things. There was like an arm sticking out of it or something like that, and we just did a drive around and you were narrating and I was, you know, and I remember filming and that the.
Speaker 1:The point is like that was we, we. That could have been audrey hell, but it wasn't. It was a couple kids or whatever. It was people hanging out having a cigarette. It's like that. That's the point is if, if you can't it here, then you're never going to see that stuff. If you can't tell me what typical and do that sense making exercise to to do a hypothesis test and say, all right, if this is, then what else it could be? Let me go investigate further. And it literally took a minute a minute, because the video is a minute long and that's how long it took to determine. Is this something that they're just hanging out or is this something dangerous that we have to investigate further? And so those simple, those simple exercises that people do is that's where, where all the all the power is in it.
Speaker 2:I think it's. It's, that's how you get better at it, so Absolutely agree.
Speaker 2:All right Well look we're, we're almost up on an hour. Do you want to drop a couple of more fucks to see if? All right For a school if you work in a gosh damn factory making widgets. This is emblematic of the problem, because it took two years to get the report and it's an incredible report. But look at all the rabbit holes that people are going to jump onto and you know what the important ones are. What are the demonstrations of intent? What can I prove right now is incongruent and why does it matter to what's going to happen next? And if they follow in a pattern, then you're likely a piece of candy. It's about to. You know it's about to be game on that.
Speaker 1:Brian alone that helps me defend against a shitty situation yeah, so that that that's sort of our challenge to the listeners is like the next time you're in a parking lot, figure out. You know, why would someone park here versus there? What are they likely doing? Where is this likely happening? What is the reason for that? Right, remember, when we pulled up to that one place, was it where it was like 20 or there's like 20 or 30 hvac vans in the parking lot. We're going what? This isn't an hvac, so is this a conference? What's going?
Speaker 1:And they were doing like they're big, there's like some big project going on nearby and they all had to park there, but it was one of those. So out of the place, right. But but you know, you and and figure out where it is, you know, just go well, all right, what's the? What's the next? Those subscribers, and I'll have some of the photos from the report and I'll put all the links in there too as well, so you can check it out and read through this. But it's a good one, as most of these investigations are, after the fact, where there's some great information.
Speaker 2:It's an incredible job with the information they have Incredible, yeah. So okay, I think that's it, greg, we yeah.
Speaker 1:So okay, I think that's it, greg. We went over a lot. I probably we need a need like a bleep button for me on this one but it's just yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So we appreciate everyone for tuning in. Like I said, there's always more on Patreon. Reach out with any questions that you have, you know. You can always reach out to us too at the human behavior podcast at gmailcom and you could, you know and to our Patreon folks always giving us a great, you know, suggestions for podcast topics and that's where we get a lot of them. So we appreciate you for that and thanks everyone for tuning in. If you, if you enjoyed the episode, give us a good review, share it with a friend, that'd be great. And don't forget that training changes behavior.
